Episode 67
Whole-Body Vibration Therapy with Marco Kärkkäinen
Teemu Arina sits down with psychotherapist and inventor Marco Kärkkäinen to explore the powerful intersection of somatic therapy and psychological healing. With over 20 years of clinical experience, Marco shares the story behind his groundbreaking invention: Neurosonic, a whole-body vibration therapy device designed to aid in relaxation, pain relief, and nervous system regulation.
They discuss how vibrational therapy can enhance lymphatic flow, lower stress hormones, and help treat chronic pain, anxiety, and trauma. Marco also reveals how music, personal insights, and a vibrating subwoofer led him to develop the first prototype in his living room. The conversation touches on real-life case studies, the role of the gut-brain connection, and how emotional blockages can be stored and released through the body.
Learn more about Marco and Neurosonic at https://www.neurosonictech.com!
This conversation was recorded in April 2025.
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Key moments and takeaways:
0:00 Introduction by Teemu Arina
2:23 Journey Back to Psychotherapy
4:32 Benefits of Whole Body Vibration
8:35 The Birth of Neurosonic
13:23 The Science Behind Vibration Therapy
13:43 Pain Management and Vibration
16:45 Body-Mind Connection in Therapy
21:31 Nutrition and Mental Health
26:08 Trauma and Its Effects
30:44 Transformative Case Studies
39:46 The Complexity of Mind and Body
45:36 Upcoming Events and Experiences
49:10 Conclusion and Reflections on Healing
Transcript
Music.
Speaker:Welcome to the Biohacker's Podcast. My name is Teemu Arina and today my guest is Marco Kärkkäinen.
Speaker:He is a psychotherapist and inventor of this kind of whole body vibration therapy device, Neurosonic.
Speaker:He has over 20 years of clinical experience in treating anxiety,
Speaker:sleep disorders and chronic pain.
Speaker:Those are the topics that we will definitely touch. And in his practice,
Speaker:he ventured into developing unique somatosensory vibration-based relaxation technologies.
Speaker:Neurosonic is one of those devices.
Speaker:If any one of you has been to Biohacker Summit or Hololife Summit,
Speaker:you will know what we are talking about.
Speaker:Their device has been there always. Welcome to the show, Marco.
Speaker:Thank you very much, Teemu. Great. So let's start from your background as a psychotherapist.
Speaker:What got you on the field? Well, I've been working on a kind of psychiatric
Speaker:area since, let's say, 1995.
Speaker:One of my friends was in this training in Heinola, Finland.
Speaker:I saw her in the town and she told me that there is a possibility for you also
Speaker:get to the psychotherapy education.
Speaker:And what's very positive thing is
Speaker:that the government will pay half of
Speaker:your training during the three
Speaker:years and i was like wow that sounds
Speaker:good i was already interested about psychotherapy
Speaker:then it was 2001 and but
Speaker:i wasn't able to get to the education earlier
Speaker:this gave me the chance to get there so i
Speaker:went there stayed about three years and graduated
Speaker:in 2004 and ever
Speaker:since doing that when i
Speaker:started to develop Neurosonic system in 2009
Speaker:it was less kind of psychotherapy as
Speaker:a job for me but anyway then i hit in 2013 and started to work in Neurosonic
Speaker:company company as a whole day worker and in 2022 i get exhausted i was on sick leave and holidays.
Speaker:For nine months it took me so long to kind of recover of the fatigue and everything
Speaker:that i had in background i don't know what english phrase in but in finland
Speaker:we have have this praise and and And at the end of that pause,
Speaker:I started to think about getting back to psychotherapy field again.
Speaker:And it felt very normal, kind of very natural, I mean.
Speaker:To get back there now i started again work
Speaker:as a psychotherapist in terverestalopinland on
Speaker:august of 2023 but the
Speaker:the reason i went to the training
Speaker:was that when i had this title psychotherapist people people believe more my
Speaker:words than i've been only a social worker as i worked before And that really
Speaker:motivated me because even back then,
Speaker:I had quite different thoughts about recovery and rehabilitation.
Speaker:I saw it very kind of human as a whole. The human body, the nervous system,
Speaker:the mind, the memory, etc., etc.
Speaker:But in Finland, we have this kind of, it's very strict kind of,
Speaker:you know, formula that you need to have some, you know, high education that people believe you.
Speaker:And this was the kind of, of course, my own kind of development as a person and as a professional.
Speaker:But this was a big part of my motivation to get that title so people would listen
Speaker:to me much more carefully. Finnish system is great.
Speaker:You have great public care system. If you want to become a doctor or psychotherapist.
Speaker:The government is subsidizing a lot of that, but it's also a country or society
Speaker:where you need higher education.
Speaker:Like if you're a teacher or anything, people have really high educational level
Speaker:and they're very authority driven in many ways. And of course you want to work with someone.
Speaker:If you're working with a neurosurgeon, you definitely want them to have
Speaker:a degree so why not psychotherapist right
Speaker:so working on your mind in a different way so
Speaker:so you started from the practice you got into whole body vibration and by inventing
Speaker:the device and then you got back into the field a few years ago now whole body
Speaker:vibration therapy it offers many different benefits it is one of those things
Speaker:that improves lymphatic system flow blood circulation.
Speaker:It can even increase bone density. I use really strong whole body vibration
Speaker:therapy devices like vibration plates or those are more exercise kind of devices.
Speaker:But Neurosonic is lower level basically like providing relaxation that can help
Speaker:with things like muscle soreness and also to relax the vagus nerve and breathing and all of that.
Speaker:It's like a power nap almost like this so you have these headphones it's a tablet
Speaker:device you put the headphones on there is.
Speaker:Soundscapes that are designed for different modalities so
Speaker:activating and more relaxing and I
Speaker:do feel I fall in a trance more easily
Speaker:so if you're a little bit hyperactive agitated you
Speaker:feel the effects immediately what got
Speaker:you interested in this type of technology for
Speaker:inducing relaxation yeah that's
Speaker:a good question you know I noticed in my psychotherapy
Speaker:practice that the common thing that gathers my
Speaker:clients was that they had these symptoms which
Speaker:were not related to their you
Speaker:know psychic situation and the
Speaker:more i studied and noticed the
Speaker:the symptoms the more they get me into
Speaker:the autonomic nervous system starting from
Speaker:anxiety for example but different kind
Speaker:of psychological background but the thing
Speaker:that you saw was very budded in
Speaker:their bodies and tensions and stuff like
Speaker:this and that i started to wonder whether is there
Speaker:any kind of formula that do we can get very comprehensive results and i'm a
Speaker:musician also i play guitar i started with the drums and all the music is also
Speaker:as we know vibration And when I play on the stage.
Speaker:I typically go to the front of the bass players because I like the vibrations
Speaker:that come from bass amplifiers.
Speaker:And it felt good. Actually, the starting point for me, when I realized that, okay.
Speaker:We can focus the vibrations to the body directly, was that when I was watching
Speaker:the movie Save Private Ryan,
Speaker:and I was sitting on my couch in the living room, and there is this scene where
Speaker:the Germans come to the town, destroy the town.
Speaker:There is a tank coming with a group and I felt that vibration on my couch.
Speaker:Because i had subwoofer attached to the
Speaker:couch and i felt that the vibration from
Speaker:the tank on the movie before i heard
Speaker:it and i started to kind of do it
Speaker:all all over again that that scene and and i felt warm in my hand because of
Speaker:the vibration and i was like okay this stimulates your blood circulation so
Speaker:there has to be more than that also and then i moved forward i,
Speaker:started to study from the internet that is there any type of transducers that
Speaker:can change the sound waves to the mechanical force,
Speaker:mechanical vibration and I found those and then I built the first version of
Speaker:Neurosonic to my sunbed.
Speaker:I attached you know the transducers inside the sunbed and I connected it to
Speaker:the home movie theater system.
Speaker:And I had these CDs where I had sinusoidal waves from 20 to 200 hertz.
Speaker:One minute per frequency starting from 20.
Speaker:And I started to play those through the sunbeck. And my first experience was
Speaker:that I was in Lapland on my itinerary and I was naked.
Speaker:Of course, there's a sauna. Yeah, of course. No, no.
Speaker:Actually, I was on the top of a very high hill. There was snow. It was sunny.
Speaker:And actually, there was windy. And I could feel the wind in my body on that green stick.
Speaker:And I was like, wow. So this means that we can kind of...
Speaker:We can pass your thoughts and get to
Speaker:the subliminal mind with the vibration and
Speaker:the more i tried for myself the
Speaker:deeper i got and after about three
Speaker:weeks using it in my home i lost my
Speaker:weight about four kilo only by doing that
Speaker:vibration nothing extra you
Speaker:know training or no changes in your diet
Speaker:or no medications only that vibration and
Speaker:and but i i felt that it was more you
Speaker:know lymphatic system that activated from the
Speaker:the vibrations and my swellings were much more
Speaker:less and stuff like this and then i got to the one lady in lahti and she was
Speaker:working to the government and i told her my vision and my idea of about that
Speaker:we can build up a system that is very useful for example, in psychotherapy,
Speaker:but also maybe in physiotherapy with muscles and etc.
Speaker:And I get the financial support from the government at the early stages.
Speaker:And then we started to develop Neurosonic as a product.
Speaker:In 2009 and it took
Speaker:about 18 months to develop the
Speaker:system to build up you know different kind of
Speaker:of course we had then we didn't have so much programs that we have now but more
Speaker:or less we got the product in in a situation that we could launch it to the
Speaker:markets and we started in the summer of 2011 to sell neurosomic device.
Speaker:The first device was professional chair and then came mattress on 2012 and the Divaan model came 2013.
Speaker:Yeah it's an amazing device and when
Speaker:you spoke about lymphatic system for the listeners the
Speaker:heart has a pump but the lymphatic system doesn't have a pumps so
Speaker:it requires actually vibration so
Speaker:every time you go for a walk you are stimulating the
Speaker:lymphatic system and nowadays people are so sedentary that
Speaker:they don't move necessarily a lot and with this
Speaker:kind of vibration technology you can get half an
Speaker:hour worth of vibration in your body by
Speaker:just taking a relaxing moment and
Speaker:that's amazing another useful thing in
Speaker:addition to blood flow improvement and lymphatic system
Speaker:improvement is related to hormones so
Speaker:it can lower stress hormones there are studies that indicate
Speaker:that mechanical vibration can reduce cortisol levels and
Speaker:in addition to reducing cortisol you can boost endorphin release
Speaker:endorphins relieve pain and improve mood and yeah
Speaker:like the nervous system aspect is another thing of course the
Speaker:vagus nerve but the activation of parsimatic nervous
Speaker:system so people are nowadays quite a lot in fight or flight mode when they
Speaker:go throughout their day checking emails and running from meeting to another
Speaker:and being in their thoughts in the future and in the past you just described
Speaker:like how you went into your subconscious mind you were on the top of a mountain
Speaker:feeling the wind on your body and like.
Speaker:Being able to tap into this parasympathetic state is key for not just calmness
Speaker:in the body and mind and reduction of stress,
Speaker:but also for a balanced functioning of the nervous system and recovery so that
Speaker:you can get into the next battle more prepared.
Speaker:This kind of stimulation can also help improve neuromuscular coordination.
Speaker:So if you are in a rehabilitation or something like this, this improved coordination
Speaker:may lower muscle tension and improve proper receptors or coordination,
Speaker:which is kind of interesting.
Speaker:You're not really doing anything. You're lying down, but you can actually improve your body orientation.
Speaker:And all of these, of course, contribute to better sleep quality.
Speaker:So better sleep supports overall health, improves stress management and boosts that recovery state.
Speaker:So there's all these collateral benefits that you're getting from this kind of technology.
Speaker:Would you add something else as well? Well, pain management is one of the main targets.
Speaker:We don't market it, but observations for me was, I was working on a physiotherapy
Speaker:clinic then, when I developed the neuroscience system, and we had lots of pain.
Speaker:Customers and mostly there were fibromyalgia
Speaker:and also back pains and again shoulder
Speaker:pains and stuff like this joint pains but anyway
Speaker:we noticed very quickly that neurotic and
Speaker:vibration in general is very useful for
Speaker:the different kind of pains but especially for
Speaker:the pains that have a background in the
Speaker:in the autonomic nervous system and typically
Speaker:fibromyalgia is one of those types
Speaker:of pain that has this kind of very long-term stress you
Speaker:know on on those clients maybe from
Speaker:the childhood even and and and that
Speaker:is very important to notice the pain management
Speaker:and if i think about the general you
Speaker:know effect of the vibration now we.
Speaker:Know 2021 two gentlemen
Speaker:get the Nobel Prize to find out
Speaker:that we have this pH 1 and pH 2
Speaker:type of receptors in our body and those
Speaker:receptors are receiving the
Speaker:vibrations which are given you
Speaker:know externally or internally and that
Speaker:they are changing our kind of
Speaker:response bodily response to
Speaker:the vibrations and the main thing here
Speaker:is that those two receptors are
Speaker:changing our metabolism overall
Speaker:and especially you know blood fluid
Speaker:and also lymphatic flawed and if
Speaker:you have life you have always circulation and
Speaker:that's the key thing here when you die you don't circulate it's very simple
Speaker:yeah hopefully yeah but that's very simple and you know i'm thinking that even
Speaker:you have symptoms any kind of symptoms you know the lymphatic and blood circulation is the key thing.
Speaker:Recover from those symptoms. And with the vibration, we can.
Speaker:So you combine this somatic therapy with psychotherapy.
Speaker:And what kind of effects can you see there?
Speaker:Because psychotherapy is a lot about talk therapy. So you cognitively help the
Speaker:person realize their problems or work through them.
Speaker:I remember someone who, a massage therapist,
Speaker:pretty experienced one noticed that when he
Speaker:was massaging the patient they tend to like start to release issues in their
Speaker:life they start to talk about problems and so the massage alone releasing tension
Speaker:it's not just the manual manipulation it's also the fact that they are then releasing.
Speaker:Potentially tension which is psychological that
Speaker:is trapped in their body in some way and this
Speaker:leads into like long longer term feeling
Speaker:of well-being so what can you talk about the
Speaker:body and the mind connection in this context well
Speaker:let me put it this way that often neuro
Speaker:something gives much more faster and
Speaker:much more deeper relief from
Speaker:the tension and psychotherapy we have
Speaker:these blocks in our thoughts you know locks and
Speaker:type of thinking that it's it's not a fast way to get rid of the symptoms you
Speaker:know come to the psychotherapy because what is the key role of the body if we
Speaker:think it that how do you see it the the main thing what's the
Speaker:the the most important thing in our
Speaker:body and in my opinion is that
Speaker:the body needs to be alive you
Speaker:know and everything that is threatening that
Speaker:even though it's it's even even though it's
Speaker:it's in a way that you know it okay i have this thing going on for example in
Speaker:my job or in my relationship it or it's very kind of deep thing that it's subliminal
Speaker:and you can get touched to it kind of this thought that troubles you.
Speaker:Then in both cases you know our autonomic nervous system is responding in a
Speaker:way you mentioned earlier that we are in a
Speaker:50 flight state it goes to
Speaker:the 50 flight state and then happens things
Speaker:in your metabolism for example the longer
Speaker:it takes keeps going on the the
Speaker:more you have cortisol then dopamine is
Speaker:the it plays a key role in kind
Speaker:of reducing the the you know
Speaker:the the things in our body especially inflammation
Speaker:and the more you have this
Speaker:inflammation the more dopamine needs
Speaker:to work out kind of reduce the
Speaker:inflammation the more you get symptoms on
Speaker:your mood and this is one thing that we don't talk about people get you know
Speaker:antidepressants and medications and but the main thing is to put down the inflammation
Speaker:in your body then your dopamine release and your Dopamine levels are much higher,
Speaker:which means that your mood is also on a higher level.
Speaker:And together with psychotherapy and combined with the vibration, we can get,
Speaker:quite fast results on different kind of things because it lowers your inflammation levels in your body.
Speaker:So the more you get dopamine for your mood.
Speaker:But I think that the key role of using vibration combined with psychotherapy is to release tensions.
Speaker:Bodily tensions, and also So people have typically different kind of pain areas
Speaker:when they have these psychological issues at the same time.
Speaker:Typically, it's on your head area or your neck and shoulder area,
Speaker:but typically also in your stomach.
Speaker:And we know that vibration also affects your digestive system.
Speaker:System and it releases you know good
Speaker:bacteria from the mechanoreceptors on
Speaker:the walls of the digestive system and it
Speaker:reduce the the swellings and also it
Speaker:lowers the inflammation in your bowel system so
Speaker:and that plays a key role kind of
Speaker:what happens via macus nerve
Speaker:from your bowels to the brain
Speaker:and so we can kind of improve your
Speaker:mood also with vibration from your
Speaker:bowels and yeah and overall
Speaker:i think that when we can improve the lymphatic
Speaker:circulation and we can improve also the blood circulation
Speaker:it's all it's all kind of i
Speaker:think neurosomics is a kind of and all the
Speaker:vibration systems they are like exercise kind
Speaker:of even though you don't do anything you just lay down there but it's an exercise
Speaker:to your body that improves your overall metabolism and that's always a good
Speaker:thing you are the device is on your working place or you come to the psychotherapy.
Speaker:You know. Yeah, it's very interesting that you mentioned this gut-brain connection
Speaker:and like just to kind of refer to some of the latest studies,
Speaker:it's been noticed that the link in inflammation in the gut is connected to anxiety
Speaker:symptoms and we often tend to treat anxiety and depression and stress in the
Speaker:brain with medication and we think it's a neurotransmitter issue,
Speaker:but it might be that you just have like you mentioned inflammation in the body
Speaker:and the gut is a huge aspect of that.
Speaker:The gut is sending signals through the vagus nerve. The gut produces neurotransmitters
Speaker:as well, like serotonin, which influences mood.
Speaker:Gut bacteria releases chemicals that affect brain function, so that can be toxins
Speaker:or beneficial neurotransmitters and molecules.
Speaker:So this basically is interesting because we think it's a brain issue,
Speaker:but actually there might be
Speaker:a systemic issue in the body. and this is a technology that can help that.
Speaker:I can also imagine it improves the flow, liver function, a lot of other organs
Speaker:as well by vibrating them, by improving the blood flow, by improving the lymphatic flow.
Speaker:So many people, when they talk about anxiety or stress, it's almost like they
Speaker:are talking about that something is stuck, like energy doesn't flow.
Speaker:So making the energy flow, like getting rid of
Speaker:the blockages so the blockage in the mind might be actually
Speaker:a blockage in the body as well so this like
Speaker:more comprehensive view points to the direction
Speaker:that as you are working on whatever is
Speaker:above your shoulders you should also work on
Speaker:the body I personally notice great improvements from
Speaker:using vibration plate or or Neurosonic I
Speaker:notice immediate mood shift even from a massage gun
Speaker:if I massage like shoulder area yes like the improvement
Speaker:in blood flow to the brain it's like a cup of
Speaker:coffee so sometimes when you feel like you're a
Speaker:bit tired brain fogged a vibration can
Speaker:be the thing not another cup of coffee which i'm having
Speaker:right now by the way so yeah like like so
Speaker:so all of these things you discovered from
Speaker:your initial experience and diving into it
Speaker:and also i i would assume like
Speaker:this also changed your thinking about therapy you
Speaker:were trained as a therapist probably a lot of the studies deal with the mind
Speaker:is there a lot of like knowledge or information in the studies that would focus
Speaker:on the body or is it all just like brain and mind centered on psychology unfortunately
Speaker:not there are more nowadays but.
Speaker:Typically the situation is that when
Speaker:you go to the psychotherapy or psychologist they
Speaker:they discuss with you with your psychological
Speaker:you know problems and on my
Speaker:opinion it's the wholeness that you
Speaker:need to kind of look at and also give
Speaker:the treatment and but i think
Speaker:that the awareness about this it's
Speaker:racing all the time for sure yeah because
Speaker:as you mentioned earlier one one
Speaker:thing here is i think it's nutrition people don't
Speaker:eat so well and that gives you
Speaker:a mood change also the inflammation in
Speaker:your body and stuff like this and for example
Speaker:in where i work now we
Speaker:have we have different kinds of therapists that clients
Speaker:can use to treat their problems for example
Speaker:we have nutrition therapists and i
Speaker:can recommend for my clients that you should go
Speaker:there you're obviously not eating.
Speaker:Well so you need to change your
Speaker:nutrition and stuff like this and but
Speaker:anyway i i think that i feel
Speaker:that we are kind of pioneer in Neurosonic in
Speaker:this field and myself as a psychotherapist and
Speaker:the developer of the system kind of
Speaker:very proud to yeah yeah you're definitely one of
Speaker:the runners the official you know
Speaker:field to the direction that we need to focus on the wholeness of you know human
Speaker:body and mind you've been doing this for 20 years and i'm very happy that online
Speaker:or matt there who also speaks about the body and mind connection and authors like
Speaker:Bessel van der Kolk, who wrote the book, The Body Keeps the Score.
Speaker:Is these are very influential works.
Speaker:And for example, in Bessel van
Speaker:der Kolk's work, he talks about the trauma affects both brain and body.
Speaker:Trauma is stored in the body, and that traditional talk therapy has its limits.
Speaker:Verbal therapies may not reach the physical aspects of trauma,
Speaker:and body-focused treatments are very effective.
Speaker:This is seen in therapy like things like
Speaker:emdr neurofeedback different trauma
Speaker:release techniques even yoga different ways
Speaker:to develop the body-mind connection and that healing
Speaker:requires addressing both the emotional physical experience
Speaker:and yeah like this these are some of the key tenets of his work and it makes
Speaker:a lot of sense to me and can you talk about that like trauma aspect maybe like
Speaker:probably as a psychotherapist that's what you deal with like people are says
Speaker:that physical trauma is something where you experience.
Speaker:The event once a psychological trauma
Speaker:is where you are experiencing it thousands or
Speaker:tens of thousands of times again and again
Speaker:and again so you're kind of reliving the experience you're
Speaker:almost like in different situations you're resurfacing the
Speaker:same reactive patterns to the situation as
Speaker:if the trauma is happening to you the first time and so
Speaker:there is a obviously a nervous system component so
Speaker:there's a subconscious process that kicks in before
Speaker:the rational mind can realize
Speaker:that oh okay actually like i'm not under threat
Speaker:but people don't necessarily even recognize the difference so someone saying
Speaker:something to them in a certain way they might overreact the reaction to the
Speaker:situation might be exaggerated compared to what what another person might experience
Speaker:the same situation so for them their experience is real and there's a physical.
Speaker:Aspect to it from neurotransmitters from
Speaker:stress hormones all of that and what your brain sees
Speaker:is they don't see what you see they see the
Speaker:biochemical reaction that you are having to the environment
Speaker:so the cells in the body react to
Speaker:it in different ways and that's kind of like one
Speaker:aspect of that is like getting into the root of that
Speaker:how would you like elaborate on that yeah typically
Speaker:trauma is a thing that you don't remember of course
Speaker:that's the main thing here and there
Speaker:is a blockage in your mind that doesn't let you to remember what was happening
Speaker:but maybe you have some visions about the thing and some no hints you get from
Speaker:your mind and stuff like this But again, I think it's very simple.
Speaker:It's a threat. It's a threat to a threatful situation. It's a protective mechanism.
Speaker:Yes. But also, it's very disturbing because you can't get rid of it.
Speaker:You can't control it. And it depends on a person.
Speaker:Typically, persons that have this kind of situation, they are very sensitive,
Speaker:both bodily and psychologically.
Speaker:It could be that another person who is not that sensitive could have experiences mainly the same things.
Speaker:That doesn't experience the trauma at all
Speaker:and but anyway i don't blame them of
Speaker:course it's just the way it is but in my
Speaker:opinion kind of reach that thing
Speaker:from your body and not from
Speaker:your mind because you can't reach it from your
Speaker:mind but from through bodily kind of
Speaker:experiences and feelings you can
Speaker:not maybe remember then and on
Speaker:my opinion it's it might be that
Speaker:it's not not good it's not a good
Speaker:thing to remember you know traumatic happenings and but kind of give you an
Speaker:other aspect of your body that you can be calm and you can be relaxed is the
Speaker:main thing here and and And with Neurosonic and vibration.
Speaker:We can give those kind of experiences to the people that have been traumatized earlier.
Speaker:And in some cases, yeah, you know,
Speaker:the memories come back and then we can use psychotherapy to kind of get them
Speaker:to more focus and in new form in your thinking and in your knowledge.
Speaker:And but what i have experienced about
Speaker:traumas is that it's quite difficult to kind
Speaker:of you have them always they are not getting away but you can handle it in a
Speaker:different way when you are not always tense and you are not always stressed
Speaker:in your body right so you are less in a fight-or-flight mode so you can more.
Speaker:Calmly process those experiences. Basically, you are in a physically safe setting
Speaker:and that enables you to process it.
Speaker:And what I see when people get those kind of memories,
Speaker:the response to the memory
Speaker:is not that strong that it was earlier when
Speaker:you didn't have this kind of positive
Speaker:experience to be in your body so
Speaker:so yeah like we we spoke about trauma and
Speaker:this body focused treatment to
Speaker:help people unlock psychological issues
Speaker:do you have like some examples or cases
Speaker:without of course mentioning names that come to mind like
Speaker:what what kind of transformations can happen when
Speaker:people are receiving vibrational therapy
Speaker:and talk therapy together yeah yeah one
Speaker:of my first clients there was one lady about
Speaker:60s on her late 50s and
Speaker:this gentleman that was about 55 years old and this lady had a fibromyalgia
Speaker:and she came to our physiotherapy clinic to get the physiotherapy for her pains
Speaker:and kind of very severe pain in her head area, neck area, shoulder area.
Speaker:Mainly of course by promeutia she had pains in different kinds of body areas
Speaker:but mainly in that upper area and she came to the physiotherapy,
Speaker:took about 15 sessions and the
Speaker:situation was kind of the same as it was in
Speaker:the start not getting kind of any relief yeah not improving her situation and
Speaker:i told her that i had this i have this prototype on my room in my room and it's
Speaker:using vibration and it feels very pleasant and you can get relaxation and i
Speaker:give you first two times for free.
Speaker:Let's see what happens and she came to the first treatment then i had the 25
Speaker:minute relaxation program you know that program when you are using a neurosunic
Speaker:system no mental no you know effects,
Speaker:she was like well it was okay but anyway it was that okay that i can come the second time,
Speaker:and on the next week she came and i
Speaker:developed 36 minutes recovery program and it
Speaker:was ready then when she came the second time and i
Speaker:told her that i had this new program it's 36 minutes
Speaker:and the first part of the program is very slow vibrational
Speaker:waves relaxation and then it starts to build up different kind of massage you
Speaker:know we are changing the amplitude changing time and the changing time of the
Speaker:frequency and she was like okay let's check let's see what happened She took that program.
Speaker:I went to the room. She cried there.
Speaker:I was like, are you okay? She was like, I have never felt anything so positive
Speaker:like I'm feeling now. And the program was.
Speaker:And she was like, well, I can move my head, my chin to the shoulders.
Speaker:And because she was very very you
Speaker:know rigid from the neck area
Speaker:and was like wow and she took about
Speaker:12 treatments once per week she was
Speaker:attention and she told me that i'm in
Speaker:so good shape that i could go to work but of course i'm not going to work because
Speaker:i get the pain from the gut and that was that was kind of one of my first experiences
Speaker:when i was like wow we can really it changed the quality of people's lives and
Speaker:then I went to another physiotherapy clinic,
Speaker:In that time, it was the largest, the biggest physiotherapy clinic in Finland.
Speaker:Also in Lahdi, where I live.
Speaker:And there was this guy, about 55 years old, had two back surgeries earlier.
Speaker:Very painful, numbness, both of his legs.
Speaker:And physiotherapists recommend that you should try the neuropathic system.
Speaker:Because it was then already a neurotic system.
Speaker:With this lady, I had the prototype. and okay
Speaker:this gentleman come to the treatment and i
Speaker:interviewed the gentleman and he told me
Speaker:that he sleeps in a way he sleeps about two
Speaker:hours and then he stays awake about two or
Speaker:three hours and i could see that this person is
Speaker:sleeping very very poorly and i
Speaker:told him that okay i think that first thing
Speaker:here is that we try to change your
Speaker:sleep pattern and get you a better.
Speaker:Quality of sleep and that's very important
Speaker:in a case that you know any kind of pace
Speaker:that your sleep already stays in a good shape
Speaker:and i said okay we can
Speaker:try the 39 relaxation program it's
Speaker:a it's a very slow you know kind of very
Speaker:very slow changes but there is one phase
Speaker:in the program that gives you a
Speaker:like massage that improves your bloodshed place
Speaker:also okay i went away from
Speaker:the room and the gentleman took the 39 minute
Speaker:program and went back and he was
Speaker:crying and everything okay and the
Speaker:gentleman answered me that yes i went to heaven i
Speaker:had strong you know visions about angels
Speaker:and very kind of positive thoughts
Speaker:and very beautiful colors and stuff.
Speaker:Like this and he raced up from the
Speaker:chair and he was in straight position not
Speaker:stiff anymore and you know the pains that
Speaker:he had suffered for several several years
Speaker:had gone away and they never came back what happened
Speaker:i don't know maybe it was everything that
Speaker:happened to him but anyway it was amazing and
Speaker:then i remember one case if i if
Speaker:we have time of course tell you yeah it was this he was 10 years old little
Speaker:guy and he had palsy the only thing that you could see that he had this cp cerebral
Speaker:palsy was yeah He couldn't get his right fist,
Speaker:you know, the finger straight, open the fist.
Speaker:And he got into the treatment with his physiotherapist and we kind of forced
Speaker:the fingers to the straight position.
Speaker:And we put his hand between the chair and his thigh. The fingers stay straight.
Speaker:And then I put on the 25-minute relaxation program.
Speaker:Typically, in those situations, it's good to use when you have steepness in
Speaker:your nervous system or in your muscles.
Speaker:It's good to use the relaxation program.
Speaker:And he took about 70 or 80 minutes of that because they need to move forward
Speaker:to the physiotherapy again.
Speaker:And okay, they went away. I went to my room and then I went to the lobby to get my new plan.
Speaker:From there but on the corridor this young
Speaker:boy and his physiotherapist came along and
Speaker:the guy was showing me his hand
Speaker:and he was striking his fingers
Speaker:and putting his arm into fist
Speaker:and told me that Marco check out what I can do now after the first time experiencing
Speaker:the vibration and then I knew that what comes to my position I need to kind
Speaker:of ensure that we make the right steps and we.
Speaker:Made this whole thing international and worldwide to spread the thing that we
Speaker:can have these kind of you know results in recovery process.
Speaker:Wow those are incredible examples of what
Speaker:is possible with the combination of these technologies and
Speaker:as you said like you don't know what happened but it happened
Speaker:and sometimes it is in in
Speaker:medicine we use very precision techniques like a
Speaker:scalpel almost or a pill or trying to
Speaker:target a specific metabolic pathway but sometimes the problems
Speaker:are more complex than that and yes what i
Speaker:like about personally about artificial intelligence
Speaker:is that it can potentially help us see connection
Speaker:between complex things that human minds can't see
Speaker:and as we get more data from the body we.
Speaker:Might be able to track that information but
Speaker:still we don't know how the brain works like we are targeting it
Speaker:with different interventions we have different
Speaker:theories of the mind we have different theories of brain
Speaker:function but we still keep on finding new things like we
Speaker:didn't know just a you know a decade
Speaker:ago that there's a glymphatic system brain so
Speaker:we thought lymphatic system doesn't extend to the brain but
Speaker:it does and it's still a mystery in
Speaker:its complexity but perhaps with new technology we'll
Speaker:be able to tap into it but still combining more
Speaker:comprehensive modalities and and throughout
Speaker:in thousands of years people have used sound therapy they
Speaker:have used dancing they have used drumming they
Speaker:have used different physical manipulations to help people release so-called
Speaker:bad spirits but maybe there is there is a connection here where the neglect
Speaker:of that aspect has led us not to help with the crisis that we see in society today despite our.
Speaker:Like advancement in understanding of the fields
Speaker:like psychology or medicine we still have increasing
Speaker:rates of anxiety depression inflammation so
Speaker:then the question is like are we actually getting to
Speaker:the root cause and and we still see almost like
Speaker:miracles like this but i mean if you
Speaker:think about it it is actually quite logical where anyone
Speaker:experiencing these things on themselves
Speaker:obviously knows what connection feeling
Speaker:good in the body can have feeling good in
Speaker:the mind and we know about some of the mechanisms we
Speaker:have just like maybe ignored those in comparison
Speaker:to our different theories of of psychological development
Speaker:from childhood development of identity and
Speaker:all of this and even things like art therapy playing
Speaker:a musical instrument might be a way of getting
Speaker:the mind flowing again like getting you out of
Speaker:your loops processing i use guitar yeah yeah
Speaker:i love painting also like it somehow it
Speaker:really helps you to because i mean language is just one dimensional in some
Speaker:way i mean it's just the words letters after one another there's many different
Speaker:ways to process information visually somatically physically like you could think
Speaker:of those almost as languages is just like musical, chords, or language.
Speaker:So you use different forms of language. And what is interesting about language
Speaker:is that one language can describe one thing, but you need another language to
Speaker:describe the, I guess, like shortcomings of another language.
Speaker:So no language is able to describe everything.
Speaker:And combining these different languages in a way, some of them sensory.
Speaker:Based on different sensory systems, is perhaps like a way of getting into the root of things. And...
Speaker:I just like philosophically I find it fascinating kind of like with common sense
Speaker:it makes a lot of sense practically it makes a lot of sense but like how do
Speaker:we describe this like in terms of,
Speaker:specific neurotransmitters and all of that so so what you
Speaker:can in medicine you can study is like okay what is the blood pressure
Speaker:what is the heart rate what is the heart rate variability like
Speaker:you can look at molecules in the system but there's there is like so many variables
Speaker:and many things we can't like measure even accurately or directly it's that
Speaker:and and in the end like if you have too many variables it's very hard to say
Speaker:what is doing what so we we like to reduce problems into simple.
Speaker:Equations but yeah i think like one of the one of
Speaker:the things about psychotherapy is like it's such a complex
Speaker:field a lot of different other fields
Speaker:of medicine are maybe more simple in many ways because
Speaker:we kind of have anatomically or
Speaker:otherwise dissected how things operate like
Speaker:like if you have a hand injury like how do we fix that like it's a mechanical
Speaker:problem so but when we get into the mystery of the mind and body and all of
Speaker:that like we still don't where consciousness is the heart the gut has its own
Speaker:enteric nervous system.
Speaker:The neurons i mean there's less than in the brain but still
Speaker:significant and they're communicating and there
Speaker:is no easy or reliable ways of fully
Speaker:studying these systems i remember just a few
Speaker:years ago like there was this experiment on
Speaker:on on moving an ape's head
Speaker:to the body of another one and of course like yeah
Speaker:that would be a miracle right that you could be able to
Speaker:do a head transplant but one of the things that they
Speaker:were really excited about was like would that change
Speaker:their personality would that change their psychology like
Speaker:would there be memories would they remember things
Speaker:that the old body remembered and unfortunately we
Speaker:can't have a conversation with a ape and it didn't survive
Speaker:for long so it might take some while before us we are
Speaker:able to study these kind of questions yeah it
Speaker:is it's so you you are just playing with
Speaker:inputs and outputs right so like into this
Speaker:like complex system and with ai systems
Speaker:also i mean we play with inputs and outputs and it's one of those consumer
Speaker:technologies where we don't fully understand how it
Speaker:actually operates we can't we know how to build one we know how to get it functioning
Speaker:but it's still a complete mystery what is happening fully inside we're trying
Speaker:to tap into the thinking process and it's weirder than we think and i think
Speaker:it's like because it mirrors biology it's somehow like Like if that's weird.
Speaker:Like then think about the human psycho-physiological, psycho-electrical system.
Speaker:Like it's so complex. It's mind-boggling. It's weird also. It's very weird.
Speaker:So, okay. So if people want to experience
Speaker:this, they're most welcome to HoloLife Summit 14 and 15 of June.
Speaker:Get your Neurosonic session. It's a somatic experience. You've experienced it
Speaker:like firsthand for sure.
Speaker:But if people want to know more about this technology and your work,
Speaker:where can they find more information?
Speaker:Neurosonic has its own website, neuros.fi.
Speaker:So go there. There are lots of, you know, videos about Neurosonic on YouTube.
Speaker:I totally agree what you said earlier.
Speaker:And there are lots of mysteries that we need to
Speaker:figure out and i don't believe that we
Speaker:can figure out everything ever that's my
Speaker:opinion but let's keep it simple in
Speaker:my opinion if we think about the mind and the
Speaker:body the main thing is that you notice.
Speaker:You know your emotions and when
Speaker:your emotions are in your you
Speaker:know new knowledge in your in your mind
Speaker:you can feel that you can you can
Speaker:say that now i feel this and now i feel that
Speaker:then you are connected and then
Speaker:you are in balance and i
Speaker:think that emotions are kind of
Speaker:very hard to study because
Speaker:you know every person in this.
Speaker:Planet has different kind of
Speaker:emotions and what comes to the
Speaker:psychotherapy it's always very important
Speaker:to kind of listen the patient
Speaker:and kind of see the individual you
Speaker:know patterns that are maybe ruling
Speaker:him or her but kind of get to
Speaker:the emotions that they are feeling and from
Speaker:there and if they don't recognize their
Speaker:emotions give them those you
Speaker:know are you feeling like this put the
Speaker:words for the emotions for them
Speaker:that's the best way to get the results in
Speaker:psychotherapy because people are not yeah people
Speaker:are not stupid they they know what's
Speaker:happening you know i'm divorcing or some
Speaker:something else but the emotions are kind
Speaker:of the the blockage that kind
Speaker:of it it it slows their
Speaker:path to the future and to talk about emotions get to know them recognize them
Speaker:is the most important thing that's a wonderful way to put it it's like one of
Speaker:these old Greek wisdoms of know yourself and.
Speaker:This was inscribed in the temple of Apollo in Delphi, and many ancient thinkers,
Speaker:including Socrates and Plato, they thought highly about this idea.
Speaker:Know yourself, or Thai self, is not only about knowing yourself as a psychological
Speaker:construct and mind, but also as a body. Not at all.
Speaker:Connected system and connected to the environment. It's a journey that is never
Speaker:complete because we also keep on changing and we keep on unraveling new layers
Speaker:and seeing things from new perspective.
Speaker:And it's one of those journeys that all of us are here together on this same
Speaker:journey and like learning to know thyself.
Speaker:And taking the body into account is one of those things.
Speaker:If you feel like neglected your body, like now is the time to start.
Speaker:And getting into vibration i mean
Speaker:you can just do it on the on place like there's all kinds of
Speaker:yogic techniques of vibrating the body there's
Speaker:all kinds of exercise things even use like
Speaker:a foam roller but in the end Neurosonic is
Speaker:a is a direct path to to the
Speaker:deep subconscious mind to to the parsnipic
Speaker:nervous system it's it acts very fast so that's what i really like about that
Speaker:and this experience is shared by many it's it's it's a real thing so thank you
Speaker:so much Marco for coming to the show I learned a lot and calm peaceful steady
Speaker:state was also definitely.
Speaker:Communicated into into this that yeah you can find peace in the mind and body
Speaker:and you've been working on this for a long time and thank you so much for sharing
Speaker:your wisdom. Thank you, Teemu.
Speaker:Music.
