Power in Peace With Sorin Schiller

Sorin Schiller: 00:00:00

And that second chance came at 25, where I did plan and acted on

Sorin Schiller: 00:00:06

taking my own life, and by chance alone I woke up two days later

Sorin Schiller: 00:00:10

with enough chemicals in my body to take out five people.

Sorin Schiller: 00:00:14

And the only way that I could move past it is to see it

Sorin Schiller: 00:00:18

as a successful attempt that I did kill that person.

Sorin Schiller: 00:00:23

You have to make decisions because you want to be useful, not used.

Teemu Arina: 00:00:48

Welcome to the Biohacker's Podcast. My name is Teemu Arina.

Teemu Arina: 00:00:52

And in a world where most people who we see on media are professional

Teemu Arina: 00:00:58

liars, politicians, social media influencers, actors on screen,

Teemu Arina: 00:01:04

I'm very delighted to speak to Sorin Schiller.

Teemu Arina: 00:01:08

He's a feral philosopher and human nature advisor that he calls himself, but he

Teemu Arina: 00:01:13

also has a rough background of crime.

Teemu Arina: 00:01:18

Also, he has dabbled into modern life in many different ways, and his personality

Teemu Arina: 00:01:24

is reaching millions on social media. And he's a lifelong polymath, he's super smart,

Teemu Arina: 00:01:28

he's very interested in science, psychology, philosophy, spirituality, and the lived experience,

Teemu Arina: 00:01:35

and I think he's who has turned his authenticity into his brand in a

Teemu Arina: 00:01:40

sense, and very hard to be authentic and real in modern today's world where

Teemu Arina: 00:01:46

most people consciously or subconsciously trying to create a character out of themselves.

Teemu Arina: 00:01:51

He's definitely a character, I mean, if you look at him and what he's

Teemu Arina: 00:01:54

doing, but somehow he embodies that character you in a beautiful way, and he's

Teemu Arina: 00:01:59

a very nice person considering that he had a very tough background.

Teemu Arina: 00:02:03

So welcome to the show, Sorin.

Sorin Schiller: 00:02:05

Well, thank you for having me, and I think we can wrap it up

Sorin Schiller: 00:02:08

now because I'm never going to be able to call that introduction, and I

Sorin Schiller: 00:02:13

can go into something you said, and I can justify my authenticity at being

Sorin Schiller: 00:02:19

a strategic move because the simplest way I can put it is that burnout

Sorin Schiller: 00:02:26

is always a result of people pleasing to get to a point of self-harm.

Sorin Schiller: 00:02:30

So every time you do something to please someone else or to If you

Sorin Schiller: 00:02:36

know, avoid any sort of combative interaction, because often we do it based on

Sorin Schiller: 00:02:41

fear, is like a video game where you use two energy points, use one

Sorin Schiller: 00:02:45

energy point to stop yourself from doing what you actually want to do and

Sorin Schiller: 00:02:50

one energy point to do the thing that you think other people want you

Sorin Schiller: 00:02:53

to do, and we even have research on the fact that willpower is a

Sorin Schiller: 00:02:58

finite resource, so if you spend a lot of this willpower points on

Sorin Schiller: 00:03:04

pleasing others, you end up burning Out or not having the energy or capacity

Sorin Schiller: 00:03:10

to challenge yourself to grow or do even things that are fun.

Sorin Schiller: 00:03:14

So although being authentic is an act of rebellion because it reveals a lot

Sorin Schiller: 00:03:19

in others, ultimately is a more sustainable route, and

Teemu Arina: 00:03:24

Right.

Sorin Schiller: 00:03:25

That's where the feral part of being more comfortable with violence and aggression because

Sorin Schiller: 00:03:30

of my background, realizing it can be translated into just being yourself and

Sorin Schiller: 00:03:36

knowing that if someone challenges you, you can stand your ground.

Sorin Schiller: 00:03:41

Because if you are always concerned about being liked, you're not giving someone the

Sorin Schiller: 00:03:46

chance to love and respect you, and that's the trade-off.

Teemu Arina: 00:03:49

Now, considering that you are a really nice person, although you have technically murdered

Teemu Arina: 00:03:56

me with an axe on stage, which happened in Tallinn.

Teemu Arina: 00:03:59

We did a little opening ceremony, and you were swinging some axes around in

Teemu Arina: 00:04:04

a Viking style. You look like a Viking, and from that I definitely saw

Teemu Arina: 00:04:08

you have sharpened your axes in battle in life.

Teemu Arina: 00:04:11

So let's kind of explore a little bit with your origin story.

Teemu Arina: 00:04:15

So you explain, like, where do you come from?

Teemu Arina: 00:04:18

And I guess you are here almost on a second chance, so to say,

Teemu Arina: 00:04:24

so you have to change in some way.

Sorin Schiller: 00:04:26

Yes, not to be too much of a downer, but just to be context,

Sorin Schiller: 00:04:30

I did grow up without parents. I was born in Germany, but they tried

Sorin Schiller: 00:04:35

to get rid of me, and that is my biological father specifically.

Sorin Schiller: 00:04:39

And I ended up in Romania in foster care and being taken in by

Sorin Schiller: 00:04:45

relatives that were interested in some additional money than anything else.

Sorin Schiller: 00:04:49

And I went through years of abuse and everything else that comes with an

Sorin Schiller: 00:04:56

environment of extreme poverty, alcoholism, and humor that was seen as a tool to

Sorin Schiller: 00:05:02

get some cash. And because of the reputation of my family, I was also

Sorin Schiller: 00:05:08

removed from any sort of social interactions with people around.

Sorin Schiller: 00:05:12

So that's why I ended up falling in love with the forest because it

Sorin Schiller: 00:05:16

was, despite the Transylvanian forest being very dense, the forest

Sorin Schiller: 00:05:22

infested by bears was much safer for me than being around people.

Sorin Schiller: 00:05:27

But by observing those patterns in nature and observing society from the outside,

Sorin Schiller: 00:05:33

when I had to participate with humans, the easiest way for me

Sorin Schiller: 00:05:40

is to be a predator in A way to get involved in criminal activities,

Sorin Schiller: 00:05:46

because no one would give someone like me even a chance.

Sorin Schiller: 00:05:50

And that escalated over many years.

Sorin Schiller: 00:05:54

I lived in five different countries, did all sorts of things.

Sorin Schiller: 00:05:59

And that second chance came at 25, where I did plan and acted on

Sorin Schiller: 00:06:05

taking my own life, and by chance alone, I woke up two days later

Sorin Schiller: 00:06:09

with enough chemicals in my body to take out five people.

Sorin Schiller: 00:06:13

And I reached a new low.

Sorin Schiller: 00:06:16

I don't know how to say that if you make the conscious decision and

Sorin Schiller: 00:06:21

you act on it, which is not easy to go through all of that,

Sorin Schiller: 00:06:24

and you fail, it's actually even lower than before.

Sorin Schiller: 00:06:29

And the only way that I could move past it is to see it

Sorin Schiller: 00:06:33

as a successful attempt, that I did kill that person.

Sorin Schiller: 00:06:38

So I had to put a lot more effort into letting go of the

Sorin Schiller: 00:06:43

person I became because of my environment and see who I am underneath all

Sorin Schiller: 00:06:48

of that environmental stimuli.

Sorin Schiller: 00:06:51

And also making a commitment, because part of what drove me to take my

Sorin Schiller: 00:06:56

own life is that I became rather good at being a criminal.

Sorin Schiller: 00:07:01

And realized that I was becoming part of the problem.

Sorin Schiller: 00:07:04

And as messed up as it sounds, that action for me was my last

Sorin Schiller: 00:07:09

act of kindness towards humanity, because they didn't need someone with those intentions and

Sorin Schiller: 00:07:15

this brain to be around. So my commitment in that second chance is to

Sorin Schiller: 00:07:21

try to give others an opportunity I was never given.

Sorin Schiller: 00:07:24

So try to understand what is this all about?

Sorin Schiller: 00:07:29

And in this process of trying to understand myself and try to understand what

Sorin Schiller: 00:07:34

is actually going on, some people asked for help, and I was successful, and

Sorin Schiller: 00:07:40

more people asked for help. And then I got involved into working for a

Sorin Schiller: 00:07:45

pharmaceutical company, Global One. And despite never finishing high school, I got promoted seven

Sorin Schiller: 00:07:50

times in five years to a point where I was working in development of

Sorin Schiller: 00:07:54

oncology medication. And with access to R&D data, I learned that I was a

Sorin Schiller: 00:08:00

drug dealer again. And that was another low point that made me leave

Sorin Schiller: 00:08:07

that very comfortable middle-class environment into trying to continue to

Sorin Schiller: 00:08:14

learn and find some sort of understanding, not necessarily, just information, to

Sorin Schiller: 00:08:20

provide others that don't need to go through the level of

Sorin Schiller: 00:08:26

pressure that diamond was created in.

Sorin Schiller: 00:08:29

Because I realized, since all is relative, that my ability to be uncomfortable is

Sorin Schiller: 00:08:35

just higher than the average person.

Sorin Schiller: 00:08:38

So I'm willing to question myself deeper, to go to extents.

Sorin Schiller: 00:08:43

Extents that would deter most people from going in, in order to find the

Sorin Schiller: 00:08:50

answers that can actually provide a good outcome.

Teemu Arina: 00:08:53

Right. I'm here. So you had this kind of moment where you went to

Teemu Arina: 00:08:58

the maximum limits. And I think, like you mentioned, having probably, like, different substances

Teemu Arina: 00:09:05

in your system that could take out five people, like you say.

Teemu Arina: 00:09:09

And I find it unfortunate that so many people need to go through their

Teemu Arina: 00:09:15

version of that before they change. So often it happens in health and wellness

Teemu Arina: 00:09:20

that someone has a wound that inspired them to become the healer they are.

Teemu Arina: 00:09:25

That's the wounded healer archetype that I have covered quite a bit in my

Teemu Arina: 00:09:29

work. And you're definitely a wounded healer in that sense.

Teemu Arina: 00:09:33

Now, you're trying to inspire people who either gone there to recover like

Teemu Arina: 00:09:39

you have as the hero, or maybe young people not to ever get into

Teemu Arina: 00:09:45

the path of crime by showing a more inspiring way to live and be

Teemu Arina: 00:09:51

and think. And can you talk a little bit more about your experience having

Teemu Arina: 00:09:57

to change yourself? Because I would imagine lifestyle is an addiction like any

Teemu Arina: 00:10:03

substance. So you have certain friends, you have certain things that bring you safety,

Teemu Arina: 00:10:08

like sources of money. For someone, it's crime.

Teemu Arina: 00:10:11

For someone, it's working for a pharmaceutical company, which is the same thing almost.

Teemu Arina: 00:10:15

And for someone, it's something else. So changing your friends, changing your work,

Teemu Arina: 00:10:21

changing your comfort, that is a very terrifying thing to do, because you are

Teemu Arina: 00:10:27

going into the unknown. Now, can you speak a little bit about that process?

Sorin Schiller: 00:10:32

Of course. I think the simplest way I can put it is understanding that

Sorin Schiller: 00:10:36

change or long-term memory formation only happens under two circumstances: genuine interest or trauma.

Sorin Schiller: 00:10:43

And genuine interest comes from passion, and it's at the inception of the word

Sorin Schiller: 00:10:49

passion coming from Latin, passio, which means to suffer, to endure.

Sorin Schiller: 00:10:53

So all change comes either from a big traumatic event or prolonged suffering that

Sorin Schiller: 00:10:59

makes you passionate about or have genuine interest into doing something.

Sorin Schiller: 00:11:04

And I think the hardest part, and it's the same with processing your own

Sorin Schiller: 00:11:10

traumas or healing from trauma, is it's hard to let go of the benefits

Sorin Schiller: 00:11:15

of it. And that's what makes a lot of people not go through the

Sorin Schiller: 00:11:18

process. And someone with my background, I can justify becoming a

Sorin Schiller: 00:11:25

serial killer. And there will be people in the world of validation porn, which

Sorin Schiller: 00:11:30

I think keeps people very much behind because we avoid the truth.

Sorin Schiller: 00:11:34

And we find someone, and there's a lot of people that want to be

Sorin Schiller: 00:11:39

nice, not kind, and they will tell you what you want to hear.

Sorin Schiller: 00:11:44

And you will even convince yourself that that is right, because

Sorin Schiller: 00:11:51

it is stepping into the unknown.

Sorin Schiller: 00:11:54

And I can step into explaining the way I see anxiety, because

Sorin Schiller: 00:12:00

everything is a matter of balance, and anxiety is about uncertainty.

Sorin Schiller: 00:12:05

And anxiety is an evolutionary trait that's very beneficial to our survival.

Sorin Schiller: 00:12:09

But on the other side of anxiety, it's uncertainty.

Sorin Schiller: 00:12:13

It's part that we need to let go of this audacity that

Sorin Schiller: 00:12:19

humans think that we can control things, that we can be certain.

Sorin Schiller: 00:12:24

The only thing that you can have to alleviate anxiety is trust, and trust

Sorin Schiller: 00:12:30

from a point of, you know, increasing the size of a hippocampus with having

Sorin Schiller: 00:12:35

new experience in learning new skills, challenging yourself physically.

Sorin Schiller: 00:12:40

The hippocampus is the only thing that can keep the amygdala in check, and

Sorin Schiller: 00:12:43

that's how you can train it. So, developing that trust in yourself, you know,

Sorin Schiller: 00:12:50

using your experiences and everything else, and your pattern recognition to, one, recognize that

Sorin Schiller: 00:12:56

you do need to change, because this self-sabotage is self-sabotage is never in the

Sorin Schiller: 00:13:01

moment. It's self-soothing. Only in retrospect, you realize that it's been self-sabotage.

Sorin Schiller: 00:13:08

Not a lot of people, almost no one, chooses to sabotage themselves in that

Sorin Schiller: 00:13:12

moment. They're just trying to, you know, soothe themselves, and that's why it's called

Sorin Schiller: 00:13:17

the uncomfortable truth. And sometimes it is you having to acknowledge the truth

Sorin Schiller: 00:13:24

and not choose to gaslight yourself, if you want to use the modern terms

Sorin Schiller: 00:13:28

today, or to just find someone, because there will always be someone willing to

Sorin Schiller: 00:13:34

validate the worst version of yourself, because people want you to do good, but

Sorin Schiller: 00:13:38

not better than them. So therefore, your self-sabotage will always be

Sorin Schiller: 00:13:45

celebrated by other insecure individuals that just want to be liked,

Sorin Schiller: 00:13:51

because we know that the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Sorin Schiller: 00:13:55

And even the journey of introspection, where change comes from, a successful journey of

Sorin Schiller: 00:14:01

introspection, it is one where you find yourself guilty.

Sorin Schiller: 00:14:05

And that's another part that today might be, I'm like, well, no, you're never

Sorin Schiller: 00:14:09

guilty. Things just happen. No, you need to find yourself guilty, because only what

Sorin Schiller: 00:14:15

you are doing wrong can be adjusted.

Sorin Schiller: 00:14:19

So if you find yourself guilty, you have a starting point of what to

Sorin Schiller: 00:14:24

change. But if it's always, who, me, and these bad people, is how you

Sorin Schiller: 00:14:30

create this perpetual loop of essentially hell, and you

Sorin Schiller: 00:14:36

look, need to, at what happened.

Sorin Schiller: 00:14:39

And processing trauma is a gift that we have as having consciousness, the ability

Sorin Schiller: 00:14:45

to remember what happened quite vividly, and the

Sorin Schiller: 00:14:52

way you process trauma, you assess what happened and learn from it and inform

Sorin Schiller: 00:14:58

your future decisions in order to get an outcome that is more desirable.

Sorin Schiller: 00:15:03

And the way to heal from trauma is simply adjusting maladaptive trauma

Sorin Schiller: 00:15:10

adaptations. So first you learn from it, and then you have to change the

Sorin Schiller: 00:15:15

maladaptive adaptations that in that environment maybe they were serving you, but in a

Sorin Schiller: 00:15:21

more functional environment they are sabotaging you.

Teemu Arina: 00:15:24

Right, so what comes to my mind is that, yes, you have memory.

Teemu Arina: 00:15:29

You can remember what happened.

Teemu Arina: 00:15:32

Yes, you have lessons learned, that don't do that again.

Teemu Arina: 00:15:36

Now, in some situations, I think people have full awareness that

Teemu Arina: 00:15:43

I went this way last time. I should not do it, but they still

Teemu Arina: 00:15:47

do it. For example, someone who is an alcoholic, they know the bottle is

Teemu Arina: 00:15:52

not good for them, so they know they should not be doing it.

Teemu Arina: 00:15:55

They still open it. Or whatever self-soothing coping mechanism, that you process

Teemu Arina: 00:16:01

trauma by consciously being aware and just, I guess, doing the opposite, makes a

Teemu Arina: 00:16:07

lot of sense. But I think a lot of people also have a lot

Teemu Arina: 00:16:10

of guiltiness, not from the original events that happened, but also the fact that

Teemu Arina: 00:16:16

they are not following their truth. They know I should not do it.

Teemu Arina: 00:16:20

They still do it again and again.

Teemu Arina: 00:16:23

That's

Sorin Schiller: 00:16:23

why you need why. You want to do it. The way I've been dealing

Sorin Schiller: 00:16:26

with people with addictions, behavioral or chemical, it's first finding a

Sorin Schiller: 00:16:33

reason why. Because if you don't have a strong enough why, it's the same

Sorin Schiller: 00:16:37

as losing weight if you're addicted to food.

Sorin Schiller: 00:16:40

If your why is because I want to look cool on Instagram or I

Sorin Schiller: 00:16:44

want to fit into this dress for this wedding, too superficial of a reason

Sorin Schiller: 00:16:48

for you to go through the discomfort of actually changing your behaviors long enough

Sorin Schiller: 00:16:54

for neuroplasticity to set in. So that's why we are social animals.

Sorin Schiller: 00:17:00

Despite of being an introvert and trying to hang out with animals, I understand

Sorin Schiller: 00:17:05

that my fuel tank for anything is why, and that why is often

Sorin Schiller: 00:17:12

service. That's what purpose is.

Sorin Schiller: 00:17:14

You need a source outside of yourself that is worth sacrificing for in order

Sorin Schiller: 00:17:21

for you to become a better version of yourself so you can be more

Sorin Schiller: 00:17:24

effective at serving that purpose.

Teemu Arina: 00:17:27

Right now, here is a thought.

Teemu Arina: 00:17:30

Now, if you need to find the why, and I totally agree, that's probably

Teemu Arina: 00:17:35

the most fearful thing for people to really examine.

Teemu Arina: 00:17:38

When you say that you need to find it from outside, which is service,

Teemu Arina: 00:17:41

and I totally agree, that's a very noble goal.

Teemu Arina: 00:17:44

Now, the thing is, isn't that also people-pleasing behavior?

Sorin Schiller: 00:17:49

No, because you are getting drugs from Mother Nature.

Sorin Schiller: 00:17:54

See, you're just changing your deal and becoming the dealer yourself.

Sorin Schiller: 00:17:58

You don't give because you want something in return.

Sorin Schiller: 00:18:01

You give because it feels good to give.

Sorin Schiller: 00:18:04

That's

Teemu Arina: 00:18:04

the key. I think that's the key. Reciprocity is necessary, I think.

Teemu Arina: 00:18:10

Like, why people would, for example, change their character on social media to get

Teemu Arina: 00:18:15

more followers and likes and shares and all of that is because they feel

Teemu Arina: 00:18:21

what they're giving there is a return that needs to happen.

Teemu Arina: 00:18:25

And so then they're adjusting their behavior so that they have the biggest possible

Teemu Arina: 00:18:29

return. And I think the whole corporate world and making money is all about

Teemu Arina: 00:18:33

that, right? So you exchange your time and service for a reward.

Teemu Arina: 00:18:39

Now, moving from that to, I guess, altruism, where you feel like, "I just

Teemu Arina: 00:18:46

want to give and I'm not expecting anything in return." Now, that is a

Teemu Arina: 00:18:51

very almost Buddhist idea, right?

Teemu Arina: 00:18:53

Or in India, they practice seva, which is selfless.

Teemu Arina: 00:18:58

I think this selfless service is probably one that really gives peace to people's

Teemu Arina: 00:19:03

souls. They do it often enough.

Teemu Arina: 00:19:07

But still, it can be very tempting to optimize all that service for a

Teemu Arina: 00:19:12

return.

Sorin Schiller: 00:19:13

Well, it is important to be appreciated for any sort of sacrifice.

Sorin Schiller: 00:19:19

It's kind of part of the masculine part of us. The role of the

Sorin Schiller: 00:19:22

masculine is to provide security. And you do it by sacrificing some of your

Sorin Schiller: 00:19:27

own. And the reward is appreciation.

Sorin Schiller: 00:19:30

That's why, if you connect senses on men, "I love you" doesn't do the

Sorin Schiller: 00:19:35

same as it does on most women.

Sorin Schiller: 00:19:38

It's "thank you." Because oxytocin makes you fight harder.

Sorin Schiller: 00:19:42

And that's where you want to give to people that appreciate it.

Sorin Schiller: 00:19:49

And that's you have to make decisions because you want to be useful, not

Sorin Schiller: 00:19:53

used. Because if you're being used, you become resentful, but if you're being useful,

Sorin Schiller: 00:19:58

it's when you feel that you are doing something and the outcome doesn't

Sorin Schiller: 00:20:04

matter. I think, going back at the previous part of the conversation where we

Sorin Schiller: 00:20:08

have to let go of the audacity of thinking that we can control outcomes.

Sorin Schiller: 00:20:12

We are part of nature, not above it.

Teemu Arina: 00:20:14

Now, you said oxytocin. I actually want to play around a little bit with

Teemu Arina: 00:20:18

that word, because oxytocin, that hormone definitely makes us feel

Teemu Arina: 00:20:25

loved. The paradox of giving, learned from one of my mentors, is that when

Teemu Arina: 00:20:31

you do good things for people and don't expect anything, even simple acts like

Teemu Arina: 00:20:35

paying for lunch, dinner, people tend to overdeliver a return regardless.

Teemu Arina: 00:20:41

So when you do something to someone without conscious assumption of being paid back

Teemu Arina: 00:20:47

to

Sorin Schiller: 00:20:48

Have something interesting about this, because it's not that they deliver because they want

Sorin Schiller: 00:20:54

to. They deliver because it's uncomfortable not to.

Sorin Schiller: 00:20:58

Been a bit of research done. You know, when you go to a restaurant,

Sorin Schiller: 00:21:01

they will give you like a treat or something with your bill.

Sorin Schiller: 00:21:05

The reason for that is, and it's been observed across cultures, so it's not

Sorin Schiller: 00:21:10

cultural, it's human. It's that when people get something that they didn't ask for,

Sorin Schiller: 00:21:16

they will tip 17% to 32% higher because receiving something is

Sorin Schiller: 00:21:22

uncomfortable. You can make any person depressed by giving them everything they want because

Sorin Schiller: 00:21:27

you're bypassing the cycle required in order for you to get fulfillment chemically.

Sorin Schiller: 00:21:33

So by giving to people, you are, in a way, putting a degree of

Sorin Schiller: 00:21:38

pressure onto them. And if they are entitled, it's just permitted misery.

Sorin Schiller: 00:21:44

So, yes, they think they got a shortcut, but nature finds a way to

Sorin Schiller: 00:21:49

restore balance, and those people are never happy.

Sorin Schiller: 00:21:52

And normal people will address that discomfort of receiving something for nothing to try

Sorin Schiller: 00:21:58

to restore a degree of balance by returning something back.

Sorin Schiller: 00:22:03

Yeah. Yeah. And that's where the biggest source of depression in the world comes

Sorin Schiller: 00:22:06

from, because in our organism and in nature, the only thing that takes without

Sorin Schiller: 00:22:12

giving anything beneficial back is cancer and parasites, and the immune system is constantly

Sorin Schiller: 00:22:17

fighting those things. So if you live life like cancer or like a parasite,

Sorin Schiller: 00:22:23

of course, your whole biological system, through millions of years of evolution,

Sorin Schiller: 00:22:29

will try to take you out. That's where those depressive thoughts often come, that

Sorin Schiller: 00:22:35

you are taking more without giving anything beneficial back to the environment or the

Sorin Schiller: 00:22:41

ecosystem. And that's where you can use kindness to, one, selfishly,

Sorin Schiller: 00:22:48

I don't believe it to be necessarily very Buddhist and enlightened.

Sorin Schiller: 00:22:51

I think it feels good to do it. It feels much better to give

Sorin Schiller: 00:22:55

than to receive. So you give because you can, and it feels good, and

Sorin Schiller: 00:23:01

you are now investing. And with investing is risk.

Sorin Schiller: 00:23:05

You can get a return on investment or investment and just, you know, lose

Sorin Schiller: 00:23:09

this value. You took the risk, and the only way that you can then

Sorin Schiller: 00:23:16

direct your kindness or what you give more specifically towards people that Appreciate it

Sorin Schiller: 00:23:21

and have a higher likelihood of being a good return on investment.

Sorin Schiller: 00:23:25

And that sounds, you know, not very human to look at it like that,

Sorin Schiller: 00:23:29

but it's just simpler to just don't just give for the sake of giving

Sorin Schiller: 00:23:34

because you want everyone to like you. You give because it feels good, and

Sorin Schiller: 00:23:39

you also give trusting part of human nature that Just a lot of people

Sorin Schiller: 00:23:44

will want to give back, and that's how you build these synergetic relationships where

Sorin Schiller: 00:23:49

you can build larger things than what you can do by yourself.

Teemu Arina: 00:23:55

Yeah, that's a very interesting thought, now almost like societal immune system that takes

Teemu Arina: 00:24:01

you out if you're just the one who is acting in a parasitic way

Teemu Arina: 00:24:06

and taking advantage of people. Now paradoxically, we are led by the least among

Teemu Arina: 00:24:11

us. So a lot of people rise into power, they tend to take more

Teemu Arina: 00:24:15

than they give. But ayni is a concept in Latin America.

Teemu Arina: 00:24:21

Incas practiced something called It is reciprocality.

Teemu Arina: 00:24:25

So, for example, the idea goes like this.

Teemu Arina: 00:24:29

That if someone needs shelter, you open up your doors and give them shelter.

Teemu Arina: 00:24:33

Someone else will give you shelter when you need the key idea here is

Teemu Arina: 00:24:39

that in order to be able to give, you have to take.

Teemu Arina: 00:24:43

And in order to be able to take, you have to give.

Teemu Arina: 00:24:47

And the reward... The reward might not come from the same person.

Teemu Arina: 00:24:52

And I see that across cultures, we have similar ideas.

Teemu Arina: 00:24:55

We have in the East, we have the concept of karma, right?

Teemu Arina: 00:25:00

So you do something, you might get a payback in your life in a

Teemu Arina: 00:25:04

different way. So I think those are very good principles to live by.

Teemu Arina: 00:25:10

But I think what we are kind of looking at here is something very

Teemu Arina: 00:25:14

fundamental, what it means to be a good human.

Teemu Arina: 00:25:16

So you lived as someone who was not a good human and was like,

Teemu Arina: 00:25:21

you know, just taking, taking, taking, I guess.

Teemu Arina: 00:25:23

And now you are trying to work from a different place and different principles,

Teemu Arina: 00:25:29

listening carefully to what you say. I really hope that this kind of example,

Teemu Arina: 00:25:34

because most people who have gone too far, too far into crime, too far

Teemu Arina: 00:25:40

into taking advantage of people, too far into whatever, Their

Teemu Arina: 00:25:47

identity has already grown bigger than the insecure core that they are in,

Teemu Arina: 00:25:54

that knows. I remember one person who is quite famous and has an act

Teemu Arina: 00:25:59

going on. So what he is and does is, like, not at all who

Teemu Arina: 00:26:03

he is. So the question to him, like, why don't you just start sharing

Teemu Arina: 00:26:08

your authentic self, is that it's too late.

Teemu Arina: 00:26:11

Some people think it's, like, too late, like, "I'm too successful in this character

Teemu Arina: 00:26:15

I'm in." And the paradox is that if you keep on acting like that,

Teemu Arina: 00:26:19

you might burn out because the distance between who you truly like, basically, and

Teemu Arina: 00:26:25

who you pretend to be, like, the distance.

Teemu Arina: 00:26:28

And people end up depressed. Some people end up in a mental hospital.

Teemu Arina: 00:26:32

Some people end up taking their lives. We see that in YouTubers.

Teemu Arina: 00:26:35

We see that in entrepreneurs. We see that in all kinds of streamers and,

Teemu Arina: 00:26:39

like, social media characters, that they can't just keep up anymore being the character

Teemu Arina: 00:26:44

they built. The paradox here is that they do out, and if they show

Teemu Arina: 00:26:49

their vulnerability, not disappear, they will get more empathy, more followers.

Teemu Arina: 00:26:55

Because what they are projecting outwards, the imperfectness of what it means.

Teemu Arina: 00:26:59

It means to be human. And because most people have that imposter syndrome and

Teemu Arina: 00:27:05

insecurity in themselves, when they see someone making mistakes, someone showing authenticity, although there

Teemu Arina: 00:27:11

are people who are going to be there like, "Ha ha, I knew this

Teemu Arina: 00:27:14

is going to happen to you," are enjoying your suffering.

Teemu Arina: 00:27:18

There's a lot of people who will have more empathy because you are showing

Teemu Arina: 00:27:22

weakness. What do you think about that train of thought?

Sorin Schiller: 00:27:25

Well, we went full circle to the start of our conversation where I got

Sorin Schiller: 00:27:29

praise for being authentic, and I said it's a selfish journey of essentially managing

Sorin Schiller: 00:27:35

my fucks to give, which I think, although it's very crude to say that,

Sorin Schiller: 00:27:38

I think is very true. It's one of the most important things that we

Sorin Schiller: 00:27:41

need to learn, that we do have finite willpower.

Sorin Schiller: 00:27:44

And although you can get faster with people-pleasing, with performative actions, you're not going

Sorin Schiller: 00:27:51

to get further because you will eventually burn out.

Sorin Schiller: 00:27:55

The reason why I learned from the environment, because I only joined social media

Sorin Schiller: 00:28:00

about five years ago, so I've seen what was happening and observed this.

Sorin Schiller: 00:28:05

And yes, I got a lot of backlash by being myself because I'm not

Sorin Schiller: 00:28:11

the same person on social media.

Sorin Schiller: 00:28:15

But if you are willing to power through that, and you should be able

Sorin Schiller: 00:28:20

to as yourself, because as your authentic self, you will have double the capacity.

Sorin Schiller: 00:28:26

I think this is the benefit.

Sorin Schiller: 00:28:29

I think people just say it, I'm like, "Oh, be authentic." It's no, it's

Sorin Schiller: 00:28:34

not, just do it for selfish reasons.

Sorin Schiller: 00:28:37

Because you will have additional capacity to invest into more meaningful

Sorin Schiller: 00:28:44

things. I Think. That's the benefit. Simple as, it's not necessarily about it's a

Sorin Schiller: 00:28:48

cool thing to be. It is a sustainable thing to be because same when

Sorin Schiller: 00:28:53

everyone, or so many people nowadays, have an identity crisis because one, it's been

Sorin Schiller: 00:28:59

mistaken that your circumstances are somehow your identity, which is not right.

Sorin Schiller: 00:29:04

It's your circumstances. You cannot change your identity.

Sorin Schiller: 00:29:08

It's made by your own actions, the things you change, so it's not rigid,

Sorin Schiller: 00:29:14

it's not fixed, and your identity is not a label, although it is instantly

Sorin Schiller: 00:29:19

gratifying and self- soothing to just label yourself, "I'm ADHD, I'm that." Humans have

Sorin Schiller: 00:29:25

two needs, a need for self-reliance and a need for belonging or meaning.

Sorin Schiller: 00:29:29

You, and the only way you can have a secure sense of belonging is

Sorin Schiller: 00:29:34

to belong as yourself because if you belong under a label, you are

Sorin Schiller: 00:29:40

replaceable because anyone with a label now can replace you.

Sorin Schiller: 00:29:44

The only way is to find a way using your talents to belong and

Sorin Schiller: 00:29:50

service a community, and that's how you have a secure sense of belonging because

Sorin Schiller: 00:29:55

only you can do you. So it's not necessarily just a nice thing to

Sorin Schiller: 00:30:00

do. I think it's a long-term vision of your life to have sustainable

Sorin Schiller: 00:30:07

capacity to continue growing, to experience the beautiful things of life, and also you

Sorin Schiller: 00:30:13

have to accept that humans are rather aggressive creatures, and you need to get

Sorin Schiller: 00:30:19

real. I don't understand where everyone is trying to be nicey and not combative

Sorin Schiller: 00:30:24

and don't assert themselves because they want to be liked, and then Out.

Sorin Schiller: 00:30:29

are resentful and burned out.

Sorin Schiller: 00:30:31

Aggression, you know, creativity, it is an act of aggression, genuine creativity, because you

Sorin Schiller: 00:30:37

are asserting yourself into the world. Because if you're creating with an outcome in

Sorin Schiller: 00:30:41

mind, that's manufacturing.

Sorin Schiller: 00:30:44

That's not creativity, and same goes as being yourself.

Sorin Schiller: 00:30:48

It is an act of rebellion, and that's why in every movie we root

Sorin Schiller: 00:30:51

for the rebels, not because they have the easiest life.

Sorin Schiller: 00:30:55

Hitting into societal standards or to anything else is a template for basic survival,

Sorin Schiller: 00:31:01

not a template for happiness.

Sorin Schiller: 00:31:04

If you want your own fulfillment and happiness, you're gonna have to take some

Sorin Schiller: 00:31:07

risks.

Teemu Arina: 00:31:08

That's for sure. Yeah, you need to take some risks in order to reach

Teemu Arina: 00:31:12

your happiness. I see also, like, kind of the counterproductive version of this kind

Teemu Arina: 00:31:17

of thinking online. One thing, at least what I've seen on social media, there

Teemu Arina: 00:31:22

is, like, all These coaches, made self-proclaimed experts who might, what, for example,

Teemu Arina: 00:31:29

see there's like two different versions of that.

Teemu Arina: 00:31:32

There is the, the masculine side, which is kind of the, the extreme Andrew

Teemu Arina: 00:31:37

Tate type. of version, which is all about banging your chest

Teemu Arina: 00:31:43

and rising yourself above others, kind of this, like, toxic alpha male.

Teemu Arina: 00:31:48

You have the opposite, the female side, which is the one who is, like,

Teemu Arina: 00:31:53

constantly, like, you have to set your boundaries, and you are the queen.

Teemu Arina: 00:31:58

You are supposed to be worshipped.

Teemu Arina: 00:32:01

I think all of those noble goals for men who are insecure to build

Teemu Arina: 00:32:06

a little bit of guts and balls and security and go for it, take

Teemu Arina: 00:32:10

the role, take the leadership. And then there is the females who have been

Teemu Arina: 00:32:14

suppressed for centuries and decades, who let always men run over them to actually

Teemu Arina: 00:32:21

gain some kind of But I think when people are getting into it, the

Teemu Arina: 00:32:27

beginner mindset on those tends to sometimes go to the extreme.

Teemu Arina: 00:32:32

It's like learning a martial art or going to the gym or losing weight.

Teemu Arina: 00:32:36

You take it a little bit too literally.

Teemu Arina: 00:32:39

So I see, for example, the toxic masculine becomes a very selfish, narcissistic, almost

Teemu Arina: 00:32:45

psychopathic in their behavior. The female becomes, likewise, a different version of that, which

Teemu Arina: 00:32:51

is taking advantage suddenly of everyone, their generosity, and pushing them almost for

Teemu Arina: 00:32:57

that because they have not received that before.

Teemu Arina: 00:33:02

The balanced approach is to find something in the middle, that yes, you need

Teemu Arina: 00:33:06

to set your boundaries, you need to show your, like, one idea of authenticity

Teemu Arina: 00:33:10

is that you express your truth.

Teemu Arina: 00:33:13

You express your boundaries. But that can also turn you into absolutely selfish idiot

Teemu Arina: 00:33:20

who always puts him or herself ahead of others.

Teemu Arina: 00:33:24

And that goes against what we discussed earlier about the reason why you want

Teemu Arina: 00:33:28

to change is actually to be more of service instead of...

Teemu Arina: 00:33:32

more selfish. What do you think about this?

Sorin Schiller: 00:33:34

I got recognized for the longest time as the protect your peace guy, right?

Sorin Schiller: 00:33:39

And for me, peace is just a matter of balance. And same goes with

Sorin Schiller: 00:33:43

the masculine and feminine. We have it amongst us.

Sorin Schiller: 00:33:46

And, you know, using the god, there's Athena.

Sorin Schiller: 00:33:49

An example, because that is a mythological example of a balance between masculine and

Sorin Schiller: 00:33:54

feminine. Because Athena is a woman, a beautiful woman, at the head of Athens

Sorin Schiller: 00:34:00

and the Greek army, but she is recognized for wisdom and military strategy.

Sorin Schiller: 00:34:05

And what that is, Wisdom and military strategy, is competence and regulation, the masculine

Sorin Schiller: 00:34:11

traits. And those are the traits that provide security, and that

Sorin Schiller: 00:34:17

security provides access to the feminine, even within ourselves.

Sorin Schiller: 00:34:21

And the feminine gives you access to be able to nurture and to create,

Sorin Schiller: 00:34:27

because beauty is about creativity. If you try to do feminine from a point

Sorin Schiller: 00:34:31

of insecurity, nurturing becomes controlling.

Sorin Schiller: 00:34:35

And I'm sure all of us experience someone that, it sounds nurturing, but it

Sorin Schiller: 00:34:40

feels very controlling. And creativity.

Sorin Schiller: 00:34:42

Creativity becomes manufacturing. That's why so many people trying to manufacture beauty end up

Sorin Schiller: 00:34:48

looking like lizards with plastic surgery.

Teemu Arina: 00:34:51

Yeah, or fake cars and mansions they don't actually own.

Sorin Schiller: 00:34:54

So it's the caricature of the extremes that you portrayed is just that, is

Sorin Schiller: 00:35:00

a caricature. Because the peak of masculinity is having access to the feminine, to

Sorin Schiller: 00:35:06

be able to create and to nurture, knowing that you have your own competence

Sorin Schiller: 00:35:12

and regulation to provide your security for in order to do that, if it's

Sorin Schiller: 00:35:16

not appreciated, reciprocated, or the world has a pushback.

Sorin Schiller: 00:35:21

And for women, it's the same.

Sorin Schiller: 00:35:25

And using and developing competence and regulation in order to be your own source

Sorin Schiller: 00:35:31

of security, in order for you to then get the reward of being feminine.

Sorin Schiller: 00:35:37

Feminine, in my view, it is superior because it's what we all strive for.

Sorin Schiller: 00:35:41

We all would love to have the resources to be nurturing and creative at

Sorin Schiller: 00:35:45

all times. But we still need security.

Sorin Schiller: 00:35:49

And you can get that security through your environment.

Sorin Schiller: 00:35:52

And that's why it's important to have a relationship.

Sorin Schiller: 00:35:56

Being strong, independent all the time, it's exhausting to have a community, to have

Sorin Schiller: 00:36:00

a tribe where you can get some of these resources that allows for more

Sorin Schiller: 00:36:07

capacity for nurturing and creativity.

Sorin Schiller: 00:36:10

Because that creativity comes progress and creates beauty and things to nurture.

Sorin Schiller: 00:36:14

And nurturing, we all know that, you know, the journey of being human is

Sorin Schiller: 00:36:18

not consistent, ups and downs. And sometimes we need nurturing.

Sorin Schiller: 00:36:23

And sometimes we're in a position to nurture, which is extremely rewarding.

Sorin Schiller: 00:36:28

As you were saying earlier about, you know, in order for you to receive,

Sorin Schiller: 00:36:32

you have to give. In order to give, you have to be willing to

Sorin Schiller: 00:36:36

receive. Something that I learned in my relationship in The last five years.

Sorin Schiller: 00:36:42

Because I refused to receive because I didn't want to owe anyone anything because

Sorin Schiller: 00:36:47

of my walls I built over my traumatic past.

Sorin Schiller: 00:36:50

And realized how selfish that is from me.

Sorin Schiller: 00:36:54

Because if I say I really enjoy helping people and then I'm not willing

Sorin Schiller: 00:36:59

to let others help me. Because receiving feels uncomfortable, that's just selfish.

Sorin Schiller: 00:37:05

I'm taking away the opportunity of these people to have that sense of fulfillment

Sorin Schiller: 00:37:10

and connection. Right, so it's

Teemu Arina: 00:37:12

like the toxic toxic avoidance personality types, that you are either you are too

Teemu Arina: 00:37:18

needy or you're too avoidant.

Teemu Arina: 00:37:20

Like both of those are selfish self-preservation strategies, and to be somewhere in the

Teemu Arina: 00:37:26

middle, what we call secure attachment style, is what ultimately we all kind of

Teemu Arina: 00:37:32

want to develop to be in the position where we are not.

Teemu Arina: 00:37:35

I think it, what key here is, like, what is the place from which

Teemu Arina: 00:37:38

you are acting? If you are acting from the self for self-preservation, for self-gain,

Teemu Arina: 00:37:45

like both of those can turn against you, and if can turn against you,

Teemu Arina: 00:37:48

acting from the place of service to others, that's the noble goal here, and

Teemu Arina: 00:37:54

that is the cure to avoidant attachment style.

Teemu Arina: 00:37:57

That's the cure for neurotic attachment, right?

Sorin Schiller: 00:38:01

Yeah, and I would even, again, stay away from the word noble and just

Sorin Schiller: 00:38:06

look at it as a sustainable approach.

Sorin Schiller: 00:38:09

The need for balance for me, it's something that just gives you more time

Sorin Schiller: 00:38:14

from your body being as close to homeostasis as possible.

Sorin Schiller: 00:38:18

Your relationship being a balanced amount of giving and taking, it is where you

Sorin Schiller: 00:38:23

have a stable environment that allows you to have a better subjective experience of

Sorin Schiller: 00:38:28

time.

Teemu Arina: 00:38:29

That's a wonderful place to wrap up, to find a more sustainable place for

Teemu Arina: 00:38:36

your own peace. Now you will be talking about the Power in Peace in

Teemu Arina: 00:38:39

Amsterdam, 14-15 November, at HOLOLIFE Summit in Amsterdam.

Teemu Arina: 00:38:43

If people listening to this find these kind of discussions insightful, we are not

Teemu Arina: 00:38:49

only in that event looking at all the biohacks, like how to optimize, like,

Teemu Arina: 00:38:54

from your biomarkers to your nutrition to your home to your work to your

Teemu Arina: 00:39:00

productivity. That's one angle, but the other thing is also, like, to find finally

Teemu Arina: 00:39:05

the peace and love and the virtues of how to carry yourself,

Teemu Arina: 00:39:12

because I think the more close you to the real self and the real

Teemu Arina: 00:39:16

truth of who you are pretending to be anything more than what you are,

Teemu Arina: 00:39:21

which is Very often, the trap in biohacking is like you try to become

Teemu Arina: 00:39:24

this perfect body-mind, and you are impatient.

Teemu Arina: 00:39:29

So it's like an impatient student in martial arts.

Teemu Arina: 00:39:32

You try to be the master, but you are not yet. Like, you need

Teemu Arina: 00:39:34

to go through a couple of lessons and trials before you are Scientifically Savage

Teemu Arina: 00:39:40

enough, right? So, yeah, what is what you want to kind of depart us

Teemu Arina: 00:39:45

and our audience with when it comes to to this conversation?

Sorin Schiller: 00:39:48

In a way, an idea on why I want to talk about Power in

Sorin Schiller: 00:39:53

Peace, because I talked about peace being simply balanced between multiple elements,

Sorin Schiller: 00:39:59

and power, which I know is a word a lot of people find rather

Sorin Schiller: 00:40:03

dirty, but simply power is the ability to affect everything we measure as

Sorin Schiller: 00:40:09

power, electricity, calories, and so on.

Sorin Schiller: 00:40:12

It's just one's ability to affect, and he's considering it's a balance and a

Sorin Schiller: 00:40:18

journey of life, that is a peaceful world for the majority is a constant

Sorin Schiller: 00:40:23

balancing act. And if anyone had to balance things, they realize that they do

Sorin Schiller: 00:40:28

need a degree of power in order to do so, because we do not

Sorin Schiller: 00:40:33

live in a vacuum, and there's always things.

Sorin Schiller: 00:40:36

And that is one thing I would like people to come with an open

Sorin Schiller: 00:40:40

mind, that getting power through knowledge, resources

Sorin Schiller: 00:40:47

that can be quantified as power, can be used for good.

Sorin Schiller: 00:40:52

And usually, good people shouldn't run away from power because they've seen how

Sorin Schiller: 00:40:59

power corrupts people. I think if I can call on to find

Sorin Schiller: 00:41:05

people, or good people, who strive to become more powerful, it is something that

Sorin Schiller: 00:41:12

I would love to see in the world.

Teemu Arina: 00:41:15

That's very well said. There's a saying that power corrupts, power corrupts absolutely, and

Teemu Arina: 00:41:20

absolutely in the very essence of the word.

Teemu Arina: 00:41:23

You want to find your peace, you have to understand the paradox and the

Teemu Arina: 00:41:28

mirror of what it means to be powerful is actually also to find your

Teemu Arina: 00:41:32

peace. Thank you very much, Sorin, for this conversation.

Teemu Arina: 00:41:37

Thank you.

Sorin Schiller: 00:41:38

For having me. Always a pleasure.

Teemu Arina: 00:41:40

And if people want to follow Sorin, his Instagram account is SciSavage, S-C-I,

Teemu Arina: 00:41:47

Savage. And you can also find more information at scisavage.com.

Teemu Arina: 00:41:52

And with that, very grateful I met you.

Teemu Arina: 00:41:57

And I'm very grateful that... You had the wake-up call when you did because

Teemu Arina: 00:42:02

you're a lot more And useful to society and to yourself as

Teemu Arina: 00:42:09

the authentic version, someone who has really examined their wounds and

Teemu Arina: 00:42:15

is not afraid to talk about it and express it as it is.

Teemu Arina: 00:42:20

Thank you so much.

Sorin Schiller: 00:42:21

Thank you. Thank you.